BABIES AT THE CUTTING EDGE
Circumcision of male infants is making a comeback
reports Martin Chulov
After years of declining rates in Australia and opposition to the procedure from doctors, a growing number of parents are asking for their baby boys to be circumcised. And, for the first time, the Royal Australian College of Surgeons has formed a policy position - it does not oppose the procedure. [Note: The name is actually the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons]
Thirty years ago more than 60 per cent of Australian males were routinely circumcised; that figure has fallen dramatically to less than 10 per cent of male babies born. However, hospitals have reported a recent surge in requests for the procedure, which is typically performed when baby boys are about seven days old. A report released recently showed that pediatricians were receiving requests from parents to circumcise up to 20 per cent of newborn boys.
The College of Surgeons said performing the procedure was at the discretion of parents and could be performed for religious, cultural, medical or social reasons. It said it should be performed only by "a competent operator... under sterile conditions designed to minimise hazards... using appropriate anaesthetic".
The procedure is leading to widespread division among GPs and medical lobby groups with the Australian College of Pediatrics saying circumcision should not be performed until babies are at least six months. It said "neonatal male circumcision has no medical indication. It is a traumatic procedure performed without anaesthesia to remove a normal functional and protective prepuce".
The Australian Medical Association (AMA) opposes routine circumcision and will only endorse it on "therapeutic grounds". AMA NSW president Peter Thursby said: "And then we would need to be convinced of the reasons for exposing seven-day-old infants to this." Dr Thursby said Australians’ access to hygiene reduced the risks of penile cancers or diseases which were associated with non-circumcised men in some first and second world countries (sic). "Penile carcinoma rates have fallen dramatically in Australia over the past 50 years and are continuing to do so", Dr Thursby said.
But Professor Brian Morris from the University of Sydney’s Physiology Department claims, in a new book, that "there are benefits to be had from the procedure at any age". Dr Morris says lack of circumcision is responsible for increasing the rates of urinary tract infection by up to 12 times and offers increased exposure to penile cancers. He also says it increases the risk of acquiring the HIV virus and other sexually transmitted diseases.
There was a fascinating survey in Australia asking how women felt about male circumcision. Only 2% thought males should decide for themselves and most everyone favored going back to routine infant circumcision for boys. See related results.
In the past three weeks, I've seen three young boys <5, and two have been cut. Two of them were kids of friends in Sydney while at the beach. Both parents were of German (but not Jewish) background, and one (18 months) was cut, the other (5yrs) not. Today another kid dropped his dacks in front of my car in a supermarket car park to have a wee in the gutter. He was about 2-3 and well cut. Even though it's only a small sample, could this be an indication that circ is NOT on the wane in Australia.
I live in a rural area in the south-western part of Queensland, Australia and I have made a great deal of observations regarding the prevalence of circumcision. I was at a business acquaintance's home yesterday and, as it was a hot outback Aussie afternoon, his youngest boy (About 3 yrs) was running around nude. It was blatantly obvious that the child supported a beautiful example of an infant circ. this fellow has 2 boys and I have no reason to believe that the other boy (older) is not circumcised. This man's wife was a nurse at the local hospital.
We were discussing the subject of routine infant circumcision (RIC) at work the other day (I work with a lot of young married women) and as one of them is pregnant, the subject "will you circ if it is a boy" came up. Of the 7 women present, one said she did not circ her son (and now wishes she did), 3 said they had circumcised their sons, 2 said they would circ their sons if they had any, and one said that she really hadn't given it thought. ALL of the women present said that their husbands, fathers, brothers etc. where circumcised!!
What is also interesting, is that the only doctor in town for the last 28 years (now retired) would not perform an RIC. If they wanted it done, a trip to a nearby town (80 km away) was required.
Kent (Queensland, Australia)
I know that when my son was circumcised there was a big backlog of boys of similar age waiting to be circumcised!
Bettina Arndt gave some figures for newborn circumcision in an article in the Australian on Feb 11th 1995 (which also contains quite a bit about my work). She said it had levelled off at around 15-20% of newborns and children under 6 months. She also quotes specific figures of 7% in Victoria and 15% in Queensland - these are Medicare figures that exclude ritual circumcision and those performed post-infancy. On the phone to me she said that it was much higher in the Western Suburbs than in central Sydney but didn't give figures.
As noted above, none of this covers later circumcisions - my information on this is purely anecdotal but it seems to be very common. There must be some figures available if someone has the time to ferret them out.
I would add that it was only about 15 years ago that circumcision started to be less popular so a large majority of adult men here are circumcised (~70%).
I was circumcised a few years ago, and since then I've been willing to share my experience. I was told to write to you.
I'm Australian and I go to a boarding school near Sydney. My parents didn't circumcise me at birth because nobody told them the many benefits of being circed.
At the age of 12 I started going to this boarding school. Like in most of them, we had public showers, without privacy. Every morning we all had to have our shower and we also were obliged to walk all through the floor naked, supposedly because we couldn't go back to our rooms to put our pajamas. The problem was that almost all the other boys were circed, so I was different and at first people often made fun of my foreskin. in the showers, while they all exposed proudly their willies, I was amashed of mine. My uncirced state was easy to spot because I was almost the only one not to have a bright red dick because of the glans nicely out,but a white one because of my foreskin. I tried keeping it back but it would roll back on my penis head. I also had to clean my glans in front of everybody, but I tried hiding and only a few mates saw that delicate moment.
When I was 15, we all had a medical inspection. We all were made to reassemble naked on the lawn ( it may seem strange but we were very often naked in front of each other and even adults): we were in a row and we all were checked up facing everybody else. The GP, who was a lady, after weighing the person, would grab his balls and twist them to make sure their were healthy, while everybody else would watch. When it was my turn, she took mine in her hands (it was really cool, she knew perfectly how to do it), but then seeing my foreskin, she removed very violently up my dick my foreskin and made go up and down several times before telling me out loud so that everybody could hear:" You should be circumcised as quickly as possible", people started talking. She gave me an appointment and she told me she was going to send my parents about it.
At the appointment, she explained that my dick worked perfectly normally but she though circumcision would be a good thing because it would be more attractive and hygienic. She told me to come back a week later for the operation ( my parents had agreed for medical reasons). For a week I looked at all the different circumcisions of my mates in the showers: they all told me to be done like they had been! I finally opted for a high and tight one, to the delight of the doctor. She then gave me a local anesthetic and told me to lie down. She then moved back and forth for the last time my foreskin, touching my glans which would never be recovered again. She started pressing on my shaft with forceps guided, quite low and I felt a sharp but quick pain. It was all over in 20 minutes: I left with my dick all wrapped up in bandages. A few days later, I went back to get the sutures taken off: my penis was beautiful with my glans detached and exposed. She ! then made me hard, to check it when erect, by masturbating it with her hands. She went on her knees to have a better look at my penis and continued exciting it. She finally started even sucking me off, putting her expert tongue on my scar and swallowing off my glans before I ejaculated on her face, still surprised of this check-up! She told me she did it to all the guys she circumcised as a "treat" for their courage.
Since then all my friends have had a close look at it in the showers. In public toilets I take out from my pants my dick so that as many people can see it: neighbors often look at it discreetly. On the beach, especially on Bondi or Manly beach, I put wide trunks so that while sitting on the sand my penis sticks out "accidently". Once a girl approached and told me laughing to put back my genitals back in place. She asked me when was I circumcised, how, why and asked to examine it closer because although circumcision is wide spread among upper class it is not as common for others. Many girls are circ sluts and most aussie girls prefer a circed dick to suck or fuck.
I'd like this to be put on the site if possible and if you find this an interesting testimony from Australia ( there only a few from there in rites and practice around the world). Could tell if you do so and where?
Thanks for you time
John, 18
Sydney talk back radio station 2GB's afternoon host Ron Casey conducted a interview with a spokesman from the AMA (Australian Medical Association.) The spokesman said that the infant circumcision rate in Australia had now dropped to around 10% from the high of the 40 & 50's when it was almost universal to circumcise all baby boys before they left hospital.
When the interview was over Ron received numerous calls from listeners on the subject, what was interesting was that most of the callers were women and they were very vocal in their critisism of the AMA stand. Without exception they were very outspoken in their praise for the look and cleanleness of a circumcised penis. The only detracters were a couple of men who had both been cut in middle life, one regretted letting a doctor talk him into it when going into hospital to have a hernia repair. (See Women's Preferences)
I first discovered I was circumcised when I was with a friend at age 7. He wasn't cut, and I had no idea if anyone else had a penis like mine. At about 12 I discovered what circumcision was on a TV show, and I remember wondering if anyone else was circumcised at school the next day. Between 14 and 16 I always paid attention if the topic was brought up and even "got the guts" to ask some of my friends if they were. I discovered most of them were, but I still felt - what if I'm the odd one out. At age 16 I went to boarding school, with open showers, and I was pleasantly suprised to discover that about 85% of the guys in my year were circumcised. I was born in 1977 in Sydney.
Jamie (Australia)
THE FIRST CUT
By James Badger
"The first cut is the deepest" sang Cat Stevens, and for many boys of his generation the 'first cut' was the doctor's knife stripping off their infant foreskin. Just how deep does that cut go? How does it affect their life, health and (above all) sexual relations? Recently, (thanks to Forum magazine and the Family Planning Association), I conducted a survey of almost 200 Australian men, women, boys and girls, aged from under 15 to over 60. The results were most revealing, and held quite a few surprises.
We started off with some routine medical questions. Balanitis (inflammation of the knob) was unknown among roundheads, but had afflicted 14% of the uncircumcised men; the latter were also four times more likely to have suffered from urinary tract infections. 5% of the naturals had suffered from a tight foreskin which got stuck in the retracted position. This is a medical emergency - if it is not seen to dire things can happen to your pride and joy - and all were subsequently circumcised. However, in spite of many claims which have been made, there was no difference in the incidence of sexually transmitted diseases. These results are pretty much in line with other studies around the world. Medically, then, the benefits of circumcision are clear cut (sorry), though the consequences of staying natural are hardly life-threatening.
The health of the little fellow isn't usually our major concern - unless something goes wrong . What is far more important is how Percy performs when pointed at the pudenda, and that topic seems to have been too touchy for other studies. This doesn't stop people from having preconceived ideas! Three points came up again and again in the men's answers: (1) women prefer a circumcised cock, (2) most Aussie women have never seen an uncircumcised one and (3) it is women who insist on boys being circumcised. Many men and women also believed that a circumcised organ is less sensitive and therefore reduces sexual pleasure. Our survey showed that all of these notions are totally false.
Firstly, what do women prefer? Certainly some (but only 23%) did have a marked preference for the clean-cut cock, but a substantial group (10%) strongly favoured the natural member, and many of them were vehemently anti-circumcision. The majority - 67% - had no overall preference; this didn't mean they were uninterested, just that they saw different virtues in each sort. The circumcised cock won on appearance, with a 63% vote, and was also the clear winner for oral sex. On (or with) the other hand, there was a very strong vote for the skin for a hand job. Both sorts were equally popular for regular sex. So whichever sort of cock you have it will be acceptable to most ladies, and, if it is really important to you, you should be able to find a lover who believes passionately that your sort is best! However, if you have your skin you are more likely to be offered a hand job, while if you want head you'd be better off without it.
Secondly, women do know what they are talking about - three quarters of them had played on both types of organ. Circumcising sons (or not) was generally a joint decision by both partners; if they differed it was just as likely to be the man that favoured the cut.
When it comes to sensitivity things get ticklish. Men can't swap members for comparison, so we let women be the judges. Half reckoned there was no difference in sensitivity, while the others voted equally both ways. So there really is no overall difference, though individual knobs doubtless vary. It's often claimed that a roundhead's supposed loss of sensitivity makes premature ejaculation less likely. Not so - circumcised men were more likely to shoot too soon, though the difference was not huge. However, they were less likely to have difficulty reaching orgasm.
Which feels better? 22% of the circumcised men had been cut as adults and their vote was unanimous - sex is better without the skin. Women mostly said that both sorts of cock felt the same, but in fact the survey revealed that with circumcised lovers they reached orgasm more often, and it was more likely to be a simultaneous climax. Circumcised men, and women with circumcised lovers, made love more often than uncircumcised. Roundheads' women obviously liked it that way - they wanted sex as often as their men, while naturals' ladies wanted less. Roundheads are certainly not wankers - they masturbated less often than naturals, and using different techniques (details in a plain brown envelope, if you must). Gentlemen of the jury, the evidence is clearcut - the clean-cut knob has the edge when it comes to sex.
Is there a downside to circumcision? The biggest negative must be the likelihood of a botched job. One roundhead in five was unhappy about the way he had been cut, and the same percentage of women had had lovers with maltreated members. So if the previous paragraph makes you want to rush out and get circumcised, make sure you pick a doctor who can cut straight! (You might get a funny response if you ask to see samples of his work, though).
One word of caution. Cultural, social and ethnic factors can all affect whether or not a boy is circumcised. They can also affect his sex life. We asked no questions about these things, so it is impossible to tell how much they may have influenced our findings. Remember, too, that circumcision is a one-way street - a natural who wants a change only needs to see the medico and make an appointment for the snip, but a roundhead who wants his skin back has a real problem. Think before you chop!
James Badger
Copyright (c) James Badger 1990, 1997. First published in Penthouse (Australian Edition). All rights reserved
Doctors Required to Use Anaesthesia For Male Infant Circumcision
SYDNEY, Dec 16 AAP - For the first time the New South Wales Department of Health has today told doctors throughout the state to use anaesthesia for male circumcision.
The department, in a circular issued earlier this month, said: "It is unacceptable to perform this procedure without appropriate anaesthesia." But the department's policy does not affect those who carry out circumcision for religious reasons outside the hospital system, including people from the Jewish faith known as mohels.
The Better Future for Our Children MP in the NSW Upper House, Alan Corbett, welcomed the circular as the public health system's first statewide policy on circumcision.
Mr Corbett said the majority of the 5,300 circumcisions on children aged under six months were performed in NSW each year for no medical reason.
The department's circular of December 2 endorsed an earlier position paper from the Australian College of Paediatrics on circumcision. The paper includes the Australasian Association of Paediatric Surgeons' views that circumcision has no medical basis and should not be performed before the age of six months.
The college's position paper said that the operation was generally performed with some sort of local or general anaesthesia. On the question of the possible benefits of the operation, including reduced risks of urinary tract infections and later cancer of the penis, the paper said: "At the present time it would be wrong either to claim that there are definite health benefits or to deny that they exist."
BRISBANE, May 28 AAP - Routine circumcision for boys was still not recommended despite a plethora of studies over the past decade showing possible benefits in preventing infection and disease, the Australian College of Paediatrics said today.
However the college's position statement departs from the rigidly anti-circumcision stand taken in the last statement in 1982. "The reason for the difference is that in the last 10 years there has been increasing work done purporting to show short-term benefits in preventing urinary tract infection and long-term benefit in preventing cancer of the penis," college registrar Tim Bohane said. Dr Bohane said parents should make a decision based on informed discussion on the possible health benefits and the risks associated with the operation.
"In the majority of cases, parents will decide for or against circumcision on family, social, aesthetic or religious grounds rather than on medical ones," he said.
Meanwhile, a new Australian study to be presented to the paediatrics scientific meeting in Brisbane tomorrow, has found young uncircumcised boys to be five times more likely to suffer from urinary tract infections than those who had undergone the operation.
Jonathan Craig, a kidney specialist from Sydney's Royal Alexandra Hospital for Children, said today his survey of boys aged under five years confirmed overseas research showing circumcision may protect infants from bacterial infection of the urinary tract.
However Dr Craig said his study of more than 800 boys under five years of age did not provide evidence for any broad public health benefit of mass circumcision. Rather, it may be useful to consider for those boys who were at high risk of infection because of existing renal tract abnormalities. "For these boys, instead of a one per cent chance of getting infection, they face a 40 per cent chance," he said. "And despite the best treatment with sustained antibiotics, there is a failure rate around one-third, so circumcision may be useful instead of, or as well as, antibiotics."
Looking to get the circumcision you want in Australia?
L'Image Cosmetic Surgery .....circumcision: partial or radical removal of foreskin, choose high, medium or low cut line.
Phone: Aust (02) 9456 6313 or Mibile Aust 0414 516 616 -
The guy on the phone was very helpful and was always at pains to point out that I could "ask anything - no need to be embarrassed." So I did. Here are some of the answers in summary.
1. Cost - $500 (AUD). They can also arrange cheap accommodation ($89 p/n) for country or interstate visitors (such as my self had this been in late November). Accommodation - whether permanent or temporary - is a big deal in Sydney. I wonder if it isn't probably cheaper to live in Tokyo!
2. Anaesthetic is local.
3. They do hundreds - from interstate and from overseas. Demand is mostly Anglo Australians but they also have a clinic in an area of Sydney with a large Turkish and Korean population who are big on circ. One Korean family took all seven sons for circ in one go!
4. Styles. High, low or medium are equally popular. But, to open an old wound on this list, they define high and low as the way most lay persons would! Cut high means close to the head when erect. I particularly asked about the popularity of "high" (= circlist low) as this is my preferred style. Seems it is quite popular, with some recent cases being cut so that the scar is right below the glans and follows it right around into the frenulum area without any increase in the amount of inner skin remaining. Tight or loose is the other aspect to style. Most want it tight. Funny that! Recircs are popular and the main reason is to remove any "play". Circumcisees are shown photos of the various styles and they choose which they prefer.
5. They also do the "other thing" - put it back on! But the demand for foreskin restoration is miniscule, whereas they report a huge demand for cosmetically pleasing circumcision.
So, there it is.
Stuart
Firstly, thanks to all those that have posted here, and
provided much needed discussion and encouragement. I've finally been circumcised
5 days ago and I feel like such a weight has been lifted from my shoulders.
After tearing my frenulum badly about 10 years ago, I've always felt
embarrassed and ashamed with my girlfriends, like being in a state of limbo,
neither circumcised or not. The inevitable question of what happened would
eventually be asked, and if it wasn't it made me feel even more uncomfortable.
As if having a elephants trunk wasn't bad enough.
Through this forum I found a great cosmetic surgeon in
Sydney, Australia. Very professional and easygoing, quite happy to give you
whatever style you prefer. Anyhow, I was able to call and make an appointment
the same week and... all done! No pain whatsoever, and I felt totally
comfortable with the doctor at all times. So the moral of the story is that for
those out there who feel they would really prefer to be circumcised.. go do it!
I'm in Melbourne, Australia and after being given the run
around down here by GP's and urologists I was glad I flew interstate, it was so
easy. One phone call, yep, can do. Even though I had a medical reason the
urologists down here preferred to leave it be. I guess one point here is that
they just don't understand the kind of psychological importance of being happy
with the look of your penis. I'd love to know if they get any psychology
training as part of their doctorate. Funny thing is, being guys (mostly)
you'd think they'd understand.
I think someone else mentioned it best when they said that
if a women felt a lack of self-confidence because her bust was too small, no-one
would question giving her breast implants.
Dave
Circumcisions in Australia: Year
July 1 2001 to June 30 2002
Infant circumcision: 15631
NSW (6624) and Queensland (4826) head the list, as usual
Circumcision under age 10: 3450
Victoria catches up a bit here
Adult and older child circumcision: 2556
TOTAL : 21,637
I don't have the birth rate for the period and don't feel like looking it up
now. It is falling so a more or less steady infant circumcision rate translates
to a rising percentage.
Previous year was:
Infant: 15662
Child : 3026
Adult : 2210
TOTAL : 20898
Overall circumcision is continuing its steady upward trend in this country.
James (Australia)
Immigrants to Australia
Greeks are 99% Orthodox. The following nations also follow Orthodox Christian faith (but not necessarily limited to) Russia, Serbia, Yugoslav, Macedonia, small percentage are of Arabic decent (Coptic Orthodox), Ukraninan Orthodox, Syrian Orthodox. These are just a few. So Migrants to Australia from these countries represent the Orthodox Christian faith on Oz.
Most Prominent though would be Greek and Russian. I know most Greeks are definitely opposed to circumcision (1st Generation). I chose to have myself circumcised.
Tom (Australia)
There are are also very large Macedonian and Serbian Orthodox communities in Oz (though not as large as the Greeks, of course - Melbourne is the World's third-largest Greek city after Athens & Pireaus). They are equally anti-circ. Coptic Orthodox (Syria, Egypt, Ethiopia) are in fact a completely different Church and actually require circumcision.
James Badger (Australia)
I note the absence on your list of Bulgarians, who are also Orthodox, and of whom, I believe, there are a goodly number in the Australia. I imagine that the Bulgarians, at least those who still remember their homeland, would resist circumcision. In Bulgaria non-medical circumcision is, I believe, illegal. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. The law is aimed, I understand, at the Turkish minority in Bulgaria.
I know some second-generation Bulgarians here in Toronto, all of whom are circumcised. I guess that, when they were born, it was the Canadian thing to do. A way, in any case, of assimilating to the "Anglo" majority.
Brad.(Canada)
Aussie Army Clips Recruits
I find this discussion on circ & the military most interesting. I just want to let you guys know the Americans are not the only ones into cutting their troops.
I'm from Australia & I can give you 2 accts of "military mass circumcisions in OZ"
(1) A friend of mine was a army medic assistant here in Oz in the 1970’s, he told me how one day they had a short arm inspection & there were 10 uncut guys ranging in age from 18 to 28. All ten were ordered to report for circumcisions the next day, when some of the guys complained they were told it was in their best medical interest.
(2) My boss who is of Italian descent was amongst the last of the Aussie Vietnam Conscripts in 1971. Aged only 18 (& his first time away from home), he was sent up to far north Queensland for training. When he got there, the first thing the army did was show him & the other uncut conscripts a "horror" film on the perils of VD & tropical dick diseases in Vietnam. They were then given "consent " forms to sign & the next day it was off with the foreskin for all of them. My boss who is now into his 40’s said it was the most painful experience in his life. My point is think of the emotional & physical trauma these guys went through, for what even the army themselves called "a little operation". The ironic thing for my boss was he never got to Vietnam, as a change of Govt in Australia in 1972 saw the end of both conscription & of the involvement of Aussie troops in Vietnam.
Chris
