CIRCUMCISION IS BECOMING POPULAR IN HUNGARY
"Every
male should be circumcised," says Misi (26), an outspoken young man living
in a small town 20 kilometers from Budapest, Hungary. He got circumcised
four months ago, because his foreskin became very tight in the past two years.
Fifteen
years ago, Hungary was a non-circumcising society, in which circumcision had
been only performed in the small observant Jewish community or for medical
reasons, as a treatment of certain penile illnesses. In the mid-sixties,
only the Hungarian translations made from Dr. Spock's best sellers, Baby and
Child Care and Teenagers’ Book mentioned infant circumcision as a social
custom in the U.S. The translation was very much softening the
(then) strong pro-circ attitude of the author. The other available sources
on children’s health and nursing were in favor of the conservative methods of
treating a tight foreskin, such as forced retraction of the foreskin to tear the
adhesions. Generally, most people knew that circumcision was something
that Jews were doing with the penis of young boys, but what it was that was not
at all clear to everybody. There was also some resistance in gentile
families against doing a circumcision, even if it was medically necessary,
because it was thought to be a purely Jewish custom.
Most
young men and women came across with circumcision for the first time when they
watched a porn movie or looked at porn magazines, which were smuggled to the
country from time to time. Zsolt (32), who chose to get circumcised two
years ago, says: "I was at high school when I watched, together with my
class-mates, a porn video that was smuggled in by the father of a friend of
mine, a lorry drive, who went to the West every month. We all realized
that every guy on the film had a cock that was different from ours, with a very
clearly defined red glans, with no excess skin. I learnt a few years later
that it was because they were all circumcised."
In
a lot of families, especially in religious families, everything that has
something to do with sex or the genitalia has been a taboo until only very
recently. Mothers and sometime even the fathers were shy to speak with
their sons about sexual life, and did not find the way to teach the boy how to
clean his penis every day. Thus, they also failed to realize if the boy
had a phimosis and would need a circumcision. School physicals were also
quite relaxed, and the school physicians (who are very often females) did not
always pay attention to genital cleanliness of the boys. Nevertheless, a
careful school physician, especially from the "old school", would look
at the boys' penis at the regular annual check-ups and teach them how to keep it
clean. Ferenc (39) says he owes a lot to his school physician who taught
him (and the other boys as well) how to keep his cock clean, even though that he
chose to get circumcised earlier this year.
From
the mid-1980s, however, as more and more people could travel abroad, new ideas
and information got their way to Hungary. More and more young men and
women went to school in the West and elsewhere and young Westerners came to
Hungary as tourists or to work here as language teachers, journalists or
businessmen, and they brought with themselves their views, their ideas and their
way of living. The World Wide Web became available in Hungary from the
mid-1990s, and you could find in no time any information you wanted.
Most
probably, because of this influx of new information, thoughts and ways of life,
non-religious and non-medical circumcision may have started to be more and more
widely practiced in the recent ten odd years, as suggested by several sources of
information. Nowadays, a lot of families decide to get their sons
circumcised as infants or as schoolboys, and teenage boys and young men see the
doctor and ask for a non-medical circumcision, very often at the suggestion or
request of his girlfriend or wife.
The
Hungarian language web is full of discussion threads that deal with the pros and
cons of circumcision, and many young men and women give their stories or the
stories of their boyfriend’s circumcision. Last year two Hungarian
language web-sites were opened that deal exclusively with the matter of
circumcision, which both provide a lot of information on circumcision, peppered
with personal stories. Viktor (25) is a young IT specialist, who
volunteered to be the web-master of "Jóvágású fiúk lapja" (`The
page of clean cut boys’, all in Hungarian, see at: www.freeweb.hu/korulmetelve
after he got
circumcised a year ago, because of a phimosis. He said he wanted to help
those guys who had problems with their foreskin, like he had before, and his own
main source of information was the Internet.
Usually,
if the father has been circumcised as a child or, very often, as an adult,
because of a tight foreskin or some other penile problem, he and his wife will
appreciate the benefits of circumcision and get their own offspring circumcised,
before starting at school at the latest. Klára, a mother of two boys and
a grandmother of three, says: "My husband is circumcised, and we
decided to get our two sons circumcised before they went to school. My
mother-in-law was a nurse and she also insisted on having her grandsons
circumcised. We very much agreed, as we saw enough boys suffering from a
tight foreskin and an inflamed glans. The boys are grown-ups now and they
are very satisfied with their circumcised organs, so as their wives. I now
have three grandsons, and they all got circumcised as infants."
Zoltán
(35), is married, and he decided to get circumcised two years ago. "I
had no problems with my foreskin, but I wanted to get rid of it since I was 17.
To keep my glans dry and clean, I have been keeping my foreskin peeled back for
ten years. When I finally made the decision to get circumcised, my wife
very much supported me. I was done in December 2000, and I am very
satisfied with the result. It is so much better to be circumcised:
better health and better sex, you know." Zoltán and his wife have a
son aged 7, and they are now thinking of getting the boy circumcised too.
"I still haven't decided it yet. Sometimes I think that he also
should have the choice, as I had. On the other hand, as a father I have a
duty to do my best for his health and well-being."
Hungarian
women are sometimes quite ignorant about circumcision and circumcised partners,
but in most cases they are very positive about it. The husband of Lívia,
a young Hungarian woman, had to be circumcised shortly after their wedding,
because he had a severe phimosis and a frenulum breve. She had no sexual
contacts with circumcised men before and was a little bit worried about the
outcome of the surgery. But after the short healing period, they now have
a lot better sex, and she says she is very proud of the circumcised cock of her
husband. They agreed they would get their sons circumcised before leaving
the hospital.
Rita,
a Hungarian girl, has very similar views: "A few years ago, my boyfriend
had a very sore cock, because he had a short frenulum and every erection was a
nightmare for him, so he had to be operated upon. When he finally decided
to get it done, we agreed that he should ask for a full circumcision. Now
he has a neatly cut cock, and I am very proud of him and his willy. When we are
strolling on the nudist beach, he looks so good and masculine with his nicely
circumcised cock."
Naturally,
not everybody is enthusiastic about being circumcised. Imre is now
in his late 20s and he had to be circumcised at six because of a phimosis.
He still feels miserable about it and complains about a numb penis. Imre
keeps on finding a way to get a foreskin restoration and contributes a lot to
the various discussion forums on the Hungarian web where he tries to dissuade
other men wanting to get circumcised.
The
Hungarian medical profession is not anti-circ or particularly pro- circ., though
a lot of them still would look at circumcision only as a remedy for certain
penile illness and not as a useful preventive measure. Nevertheless, most
doctors in Hungary would be ready to do a circumcision at request, without any
apparent medical reason. In theory, social security pays for a
circumcision only if it is medically necessary, and a voluntary circumcision
would cost about 30- 60,000 Forints (U.S.$ 120-240). The operation is
always freehand, as Plastibell and Gomco clamp are not known in Hungary,
under local anesthesia on an outpatient basis. Dr. Ferenc Fekete
(45), a renowned urologist who runs a private clinic for male problems in
Budapest, says he is very much in favor of circumcision, and does about
fifty operations a year.
Hopefully, circumcised boys and men will soon be a familiar sight in gym locker rooms or pool showers and on the nudist beach in Hungary.
Agyandras (Hungary)
I was circumcised as an adult, shortly after my 35th birthday, and I am very satisfied with the results of the operation, the look, the easy care etc. I am also very proud of my circumcised penis, I feel that it helped me to be more sure of my manliness. In our country circumcision is very seldom performed. It is a usual rite among religious Jews, but most of the people of Jewish origin in our country have abandoned circumcision. Obviously, circumcision is performed for medical reasons to treat severe phimosis or other penile illness, but the operation is unknown as a social custom or a standard prophylactic measure. (I believe that none of my classmates at school was circumcised, except for possibly one boy.)
In our family circumcision was never mentioned nor practiced. Like most boys, I was born with a tight foreskin that was loosened when I was 3. However, I had a lot of problems with my tightish prepuce and I highly disliked pulling it back and washing it. These sorts of troubles ended when I started to masturbate at around 13 with pulling the skin back and forth, and the regular motion of my foreskin over the glans made the opening large enough and the skin loose enough. I first came across with the term 'circumcision' when I got Dr. Spock's best-seller, the 'Baby and Child Care' in my hands which was (then) advocating circumcision as a standard care of the penis. (I understand that later he changed his views and was not recommending circumcision.) Though I cannot remember when I had first seen a circumcised penis, I do remember that I was very much impressed with the result of the operation. In later years I read as much on that subject as I could, including ethnographical books and travelers' memoirs on circumcisions among native Africans and Australians, books on religious customs (i.e. Jews and Muslims), as well as medical and sexual advisory books, pamphlets and popular Q&A publications. Thus I learned that circumcision is a social 'must' in the US and in several other English speaking countries, and I also read personal accounts of men who chose to be circumcised as teens or adults. From my readings I became an ardent (though quite silent) fan of circumcision, but I did not have the courage or the possibility to submit to circumcision. Nevertheless, I kept my foreskin retracted as often and as long as I could. (Actually, I wanted to try how it feels to be circumcised, plus I wished to look circumcised when changing for doing sports or in the showers.)
Then, about four years ago I developed a tiny infection on my glans. First I was very scared of having something more serious (i.e. a cancer or the like), as I learned that the lack of circumcision might result in such illness. (Actually, it was not sore or itching.) After two or three weeks, I went to see a friend of mine who became an MD. He looked at my penis and told that it was a minor fungus infection. He made a prescription for a cream and suggested to keep the foreskin fully pulled back until the infection disappears. He explained that fungi, like normal mushrooms, grow in a warm and humid environment like underneath an un-retracted prepuce, while the bare glans always stays dry which prevents such infections. He added that this is the basic rationale behind circumcision among the people living under a hot climate, and he said that he would recommend circumcision if I was ready to go for that. I knew that he, though himself uncircumcised, was in favor of circumcision as a doctor. (We did actually discuss that issue years before. Then it turned out that his younger son had to be cut for health reasons.) Though I murmured something like "I am too old for it", in fact, I decided to have it done if and when I have the time and courage. A few months later I called him and asked his help to find a urologist willing to do a circumcision without apparent medical reasons. He was not surprised at all, moreover, he said he supported my decision and agreed to help.
Within a few days he assigned me to a well-known urologist in town, with whom I made the necessary arrangements and he performed the operation on a cold Friday morning in February 1996. I was circumcised under local anesthesia, and the operation lasted only about half an hour. I received a tight bondage, and my penis looked like a mummy, fully covered with cloths. After a brief rest I was able to go to work, so I did not miss a day. I felt no pain at or ever after the operation. (Actually, the surgery assistant told me that he underwent the same and the operation is a lot less painful after the late twenties than before.) For my surprise, the dressing was removed the following day. I was very excited to see the new look of my male organ. It was great. The glans was bare and free from any excess skin. It seemed to be a bit swollen, but the doc told that it was normal. I was told to be careful when taking a shower and to avoid any situation that may cause erection. I received a low, fairly tight circumcision. The skin of the shaft was seamed to the skin right beneath the ridge of the glans, so I was left with no inner foreskin and the frenulum was also removed. I had no problems with getting used to the circumcised penis, as I was keeping the foreskin fully pulled back for several months before the operation. I found that, though the skin of the glans became coarse and dry, I had lost no sensitivity at all. The circumcised penis helps penetration, as there is no excess skin moving back and forth, so the contact with the female organs is direct and very exciting. I am still coming very soon, sometimes too soon. As in our country circumcision is rare, I was afraid what my friends with whom I was doing sports together will say of my circumcision. I expected they would laugh at me or pull my legs, but I experienced no negative reactions at all. They were a bit surprised, though they said they understood my reasons. I met my wife after my circumcision. She had no experience with the circumcised organ before and she is very fond of my form. We agreed that if we have sons born (which we hope to happen a.s.a.p.) the boys will get circumcised before they leave the hospital. As I am still very interested in circumcision, I have searched the topic on Internet too. (It was long after my own circumcision.) I was very much amazed to stumble on the many anti-cut sites which made me a bit nervous about my decision, but I realized quite soon that the information they give is inaccurate and highly biased.
Andrew
Budapest, Hungary
I am Hungarian and I was circumcised four years ago, at 34, at my own wish, without any medical or religious reason (I had no phimosis and I am gentile). I am very pleased with my cut dick, so is my wife. Though I am straight, I have always enjoyed to take a glance at other men's glans (pun intended).
As other CIRLCIST members have already noted, in Hungary, like in the rest of CEE, circumcision is only done for medical reasons, to cure a severe tight foreskin or in religious Jewish families. From my own observations made at swimming pool or gym locker rooms, circumcision is indeed quite rare in this country, however, from time to time there are some cut willies with nicely exposed knobs. Some of my friends or sons of friends were cut because of a tight foreskin. The big majority of cut penises belong to expats here, as all Americans, Canadians, and some Brits etc who I saw naked were cut.
Somebody wrote that uncut men tend to keep the foreskin pulled back when they are sunbathing or just relax on the nudist beach. I can only confirm this. I was at nudist places in Hungary several times and I saw many uncuts who had the 4skin pulled back. (I did the same before my circumcision.)
I think Brad wrote about a Jewish boy in his high school class who was from Hungary and the only uncut in the class. In Hungary, most of the Jews died in the Holocaust, and many of those who were left (about a hundred thousand) abandoned Judaism, made mixed marriages and did not cut their sons. The other day I was taking showers next to a prominent and quite noisy lefty intellectual who is clearly of Jewish origin. I was cut, and he not.
I live in Hungary and was circumcised at my own wish six years ago, at 35. I am very satisfied with my circumcision, and I think that my male offspring (i.e. sons) will be circumcised as soon as possible.
Hungary is basically a non-circumcising society, however, circumcisions is now getting more and more accepted and practiced and I know a lot of young males who chose to get circumcised without any special reasons.
From the Hungarian language web
My good husband is circumcised – he had a tight foreskin, so he was done because of medical reasons. Now we must decide whether or not we should get our little boy circumcised. The pediatrician is absolutely for it, so as my husband, and I just cannot decide. They say that a phimosis might develop later, so a boy is not necessarily born with it. (When my husband was operated upon, an old chap in his 70s was also there, and he felt so ashamed to be circumcised. He said he had never had any problems with it before.)
I have to fight with our son at every evening when I want to pull back his skin. Whether it hurts him or he just hates it, I don’t know. Anyhow, we still wait a bit. --Anna
In Hungary circumcision is done, unfortunately, only when it is already unavoidable, while in other parts of the world, this little surgery has a prophylactic role. I think a circumcised penis is so different; it is so much more ‘masculine’ and ‘esthetic’ than the other form. This is just my personal opinion, but I am very much for it. I realize that is becoming popular in Hungary, and not only among neonates and kids, but more and more young men decide to get rid of the foreskin, very often on the advice of their girlfriends or wives.—Nelli
My husband had a short frenulum problem, but no tight foreskin. Nevertheless, the specialist suggested to have the whole foreskin removed, not just to cut through the frenulum. We had our son circumcised at four. His foreskin was stuck to the glans and so tight, that he could hardly pee, but we did not try to force it back. Fortunately, he had no serious irritation; just the end of it was a little red. The pediatrician referred us to a doctor at the Children’s Hospital at Madarász utca in Budapest. My husband had it done privately, and he paid HUF 25,000. Our boy was done on an outpatient basis. He received a general anesthesia, and we could go home the same day. The following week was quite wearing, especially, the peeing, but we survived. My husband was OK a day after the surgery and had no pains at all. So we had both “done”, and I am very proud of their willies. I think it is just a matter of decision, takes some courage, but if you are over it, then it will be fine.—Kriszta
My husband (28) will be circumcised in a few weeks. I support the operation, but I am also a little bit worried. I do not know if the uncovered glans will be insensitive, how much he will enjoy sex. So far I have only seen it on pix, and I have no practical experience with it. Please, if anyone of you has, tell me.--A wife and mother
My husband realized that he had a problem with
his equipment only when we started to sleep together. He admitted that he had a
tight foreskin when he was boy. He could hardly pull it back only to about 1/3
of the glans, as a teenager he could masturbate by just pumping his rod, without
pulling the skin back. We looked at his organ thoroughly, and we also read
everything we could and decided that there was nothing to wait for. While he was
able to pull down his foreskin, it was held back because of a short frenulum.
The specialist offered the simplest solutions: a dorsal slit, cutting through
the frenulum, or a partial removal, but he added that if we wanted a complete
removal, that would also be very simple and deliver the best results. Naturally,
we chose a full circumcision. The operation was done on an outpatient basis and
it took about 45 minutes and was done in local anesthesia. After three days,
there was a checkup, with the dressing changed, and he could, though very
carefully, take a shower after about a week.
He felt little change in his everyday life, but we both found wonderful changes
in our sexual life. I must point out that if someone is circumcised as an adult,
the operation must be planned very carefully. All foreskins must be removed,
without cutting away too much skin. We had our two sons fully circumcised at
ages of 4 and 5.5 without any hesitation, even though, only one of them had a
tight foreskin. The operation took about two hours for the two, then we had to
take care of the wounds for a few days and they healed very rapidly. They never
had any problem with their circumcised organ, nor were they teased by the
others. Moreover, the kindergarten teacher said she was very much in favor of
circumcision, when we talked to her about what had happened to our boys. This
all happened twelve years ago. My little sons are now almost grown ups, 16 and
17.5 old, and as I see sometimes, they both have a very developed organ. The
only difference between their organs and that of my husband is that they have a
much more homogenous skin on their willie, and the scar is less visible. But
they all three have a very characteristic glans, both in width and in length. –Lívia
When we started dating, three years ago, I realized that my (now) husband had a very serious phimosis. He could hardly pull back the foreskin and it was also difficult to keep it clean. We tried to use lubes and to “exercise” it, but with very little success. Then about after a year, a friend of us referred him to a specialist, who suggested a circumcision without delay. He was very helpful and explained the surgery in detail, and offered a choice for the style, whether loose or tight, or high or low. Finally we opted for a tight and high circumcision, with the inner foreskin tightly pulled over the penis shaft. The operation was done under local anesthesia and it took about 45 minutes. After a week the sutures were removed and we could try it out a month after the circumcision. The end result: when the penis is flaccid, the skin has some movement, but it is absolutely stretched when he becomes erect, the color change at about 4 centimeters below the glans reveals proudly that it is circumcised. My husband suffered a bit because of the sensitive glans touching his briefs directly, and he very often got an erection, but after about a few weeks, the glans became coarser and all discomfort were gone. I have never had a circumcised man before, and I can surely say that our sex life has improved so much. First, because we can freely enjoy our bodies; second, because of the circumcision, my husband lasts longer and making love is a lot stronger of a sensation to me too. On top of all this, a fully circumcised penis looks unbelievably erotic for me. I am very proud of the circumcised prick of my husband. I fully support the full circumcision of men, and I am sure I can say so on behalf of most women. We agreed with my husband that we will have our future sons circumcised before we leave the hospital. –Meli
My husband is Nigerian and he got circumcised as a baby. They do the operation because they want to save the child from infections which may evolve under the foreskin, if it remains unclean for a few days, and we all know that a lot of boys and men tend to forget to clean them down there. If he is circumcised, then no special care is needed, as it gets clean anyhow at every bathing or showering. A circumcised penis is just so much better to make sex with than an uncut one, both for him and for me. (And if I think of that little piece of skin which would otherwise be in me, then – well, I would rather not think of it.) We are expecting a baby now, and if it will be a boy, we will get him circumcised before leaving the hospital, and won’t wait until he grows up. It will not be painful at all, as it is just a tiny piece of skin, and he won’t remember it, like my husband. So anyone, who will have a son born, shall do it, and if the kid has not been done yet, it is never too late.
I got circumcised at 20. My then girlfriend (who is now my wife) persuaded me to get it done, and I am still grateful for it. The operation was done at the Urology Department of the Medical School in Pécs (South Hungary). I had to sign a form, stating that it was solely on my wish and at my risk, etc. They must have been doing a lot of voluntary circumcisions because they had a printed consent form for it. The operation itself lasted for about 45 minutes, and I had no problems whatsoever with it. –Kata
I also prefer circumcised boys to the uncut ones. So far I had two circumcised boyfriends, so I might have more experience with it than the Hungarian average. My current boyfriend is also circumcised (he is the second one). He moved to Hungary from the US with his parents, and he got that little skin cut off when he was a little boy. He said over there this is the norm, and the girls think the other version unusual. Why is it better for me? It is sexier, more efficient (the remaining skin is a more stretched) and it’s also better to stroke it (this was quite direct, wasn’t it?). In the US, they must also have good reasons to do it. --A girl
Unfortunately, circumcision is not customary in Hungary, but I am very much for it. I had my first and so far only cut boyfriend in England, and it was so wonderful. Now I do envy the Jewish girls. I was au pair at a family where they had their two sons circumcised at 4, even though they were both healthy (meaning that they had no problems with their wee-wees). It was very interesting, as I had not seen such thing before.
The story of the www.korulmeteles.hu web-site
In August (2007), www.korulmeteles.hu, a new all-Hungarian website became up and running to promote male circumcision. The following is a story of the web-site, by its editor.
I have started using Internet about two years after my own circumcision which happened in February 1996.
Naturally, the phrase “circumcision” was one of the first things I searched on the net. I found an incredible amount of material there, in favor of circumcision, as well as against it. I was quite surprised to learn that RIC is so hotly debated in the US. I thought it was so much of an established social practice that was beyond any dispute, just like breathing or eating, or just as small-pox vaccination.
I read through everything I could and I had to realize that most of the anti-circumcision propaganda is a simple lie, and thus very dangerous. Everything they wrote about being circumcised was so different from my own experience. In the meantime, I was pleased to find the pro-circumcision web-sites and I was thrilled to find many circumcised Hungarians as well.
I started browsing the Hungarian web, I think, in 2000, and then I found many discussion forums, “ask the doctor” and FAQ places which dealt with circumcision. Having read them, I made a few findings:
The first finding: many teenage boy and young men struggle with a variety of penis problems, mostly with tight foreskins.
The second finding: there is a lot of mis-information and the lack of information about circumcison. Many of them would not even know what exactly they cut off when a man gets circumcised and how a circumcised penis should look like.
The third finding: despite all of the foregoing, circumcision is not at all that rare and unusual in Hungary.
The fourth finding: non-medical and non-religious circumcisions are also not something unheard of in Hungary, so I was not a complete fool either when I got it done at 35, without any medical reason.
Reading was soon followed by writing, and I started responding to questions put up in discussion forums, wrote private e-mails to those who asked about circumcision. In the course of my correspondence I have not only helped many boys and men, but I have also learned a lot. I also got into contact with Dr Ferenc Fekete who started his private men’s health clinic in the early 1990s, and now he is the most renowned specialist of adult male circumcision in Hungary, who does about 120-150 circumcisions per year.
I have also realized from my correspondence that many boys and men do not even get the idea that they should go to a doctor and that the example of others, of those who already had the operation, may be crucial for them to take the first step. Many of them find me with their questions, and now I often get questions from women whose husband, boyfriend or son has a problem.
The idea of the website is not from me, even though that I have been of the view that a popular, though still professional web-site could be very useful. A few years ago there as a short-lived trial, which was done by a young guy in his mid-20s who got circumcised in 2001, but that site has become inactive after a few month. (I must note here that the said page was revived last year by its owner; however, it has yet been quite inactive to date.)
In early autumn, 2005, I started to exchange e-mails with a young guy also in his mid-20s, who was up to circumcision in that October. He was partly voluntary, partly because of a minor tightness. After his circumcision, he asked why not to create a properly done web-site, and if I could supply the contents, he would be happy to do the IT parts, as he was working as a web-site designer.
We started working, and quite soon we came up with the basic concept for the new website.
We decided that our web-site
While doing the IT work on our future web-site, we continued collection materials, and whenever I discussed circumcision, I always made reference to the page in the making. We were both pleasantly surprised by the reception of the idea, and they always asked about when they should expect the page up and running. Once the test version was ready, we showed it to many persons, and we got extremely good results.
Since both had our jobs, and the home page making was a volunteer work, the whole process was quite slow. At one point, we sought help from another “club member” and of another IT specialist who completed the work for some money. (Otherwise, the whole exercise was done on a free of charge basis, except for that we shall pay for the ISP to keep up the web-site.)
After about 18 month of work, we could open the page in August 2007. There is still a lot to be done, but I am very happy with the results, and I get very good reactions from every visitor.
Andras
jovagasu_fiu@yahoo.com
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